Meme time!

[dagronrat]

Since my room is now tidy enough to really see the floor (ignore the desk, that's tomorrow's job) I'm going to indulge in Meme Time!

Snagged from thepinkangel ♥
Give me any fandom* we have in common and I'll tell you:
1. The first character I first fell in love with.
2. The character I never expected to love as much as I do now.
3. The character everyone else loves that I don't.
4. The character I love that everyone else hates.
5. The character I used to love but don't any longer.
6. The character I would shag anytime find hot.
7. The character I'd want to be like.
8. The character I'd slap.
9. A pairing that I love.
10. A pairing that I despise.

*Make that any series you think I know. 2 fandoms ain't much to play on.

In other news? My painting wasn't accepted to the Aberdeen Artists' exhibition thing. XD;
Not really a surprise there. 4 of my classmates' have been though. ♥♥♥

Comments

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

I think the others are gonna hate you. XD That leaves FMA and DN for the others though. ♥

1. The first character I first fell in love with.
I would say Haibara, BUT I suspect it was Ran... Only for the length of one book though, since then Ai arrived and blew me away. ^___- ♥
Ran is just so sweet and (sorta) balanced. -^^-

2. The character I never expected to love as much as I do now.
Dang, can't say Eisuke I loved him the moment I set eyes on him. XD;;
Akemi maybe? Or Akai? Oh. Yeah. Definitely Akai. XDDD
AKAI AND GIN SITTING ON A TREE K.I.S.S.I *shot shot* ...make that s.n.i.p.i.n.g. >_<;

3. The character everyone else loves that I don't.
Kazuha? I don't care much for her. ^^; Though I admit she has potential. And there a quite a few cases with Heiji that I love and everyone else seems to love. *sigh*
And the Seiji Aso case itself that I find good but nonplus. I love the Heiji case with the flashback of Aso to bits though. XD
*Yes am contrary. ♥*

4. The character I love that everyone else hates.
Would have said Eisuke a couple of months back, when everyone thought he was just some bad form of comic relief, but eh. XD He's shined through. ♥
I dunno, what characters are there in DC that everyone hates?
Ah. Shinattori. I like him. I don't particularly love him. But meh.

5. The character I used to love but don't any longer.
... Conan? *is knocked out by a power kicked ball.* Ouch... I dunno, I presume at some time I must have loved him to bits, but it doesn't seem so much anymore. ^^;;

6. The character I would shag anytime find hot.
Okay, I'm cheating: Saguru Hakuba. ♥_♥
Heiji's not far behind.

7. The character I'd want to be like.
Akemi Miyano. Obvious reasons. Plus that would mean I'd have a boyfriend. NATCH. :D Oh, it would also mean I'm dead. DAMN.

8. The character I'd slap.
Okay, see question n°4? My answer there does not mean I wouldn't love to see Sato stop acting clueless and giving one to Shinattori right across the face. Takagi's already had his fair share after all. Don't want Shinattori to get jealous do we? >D *evil cackle*

9. A pairing that I love.
Conan-Ai. Because. You don't suddenly forget such things. XD
AND EISUKE-RAN ONE TRUE PAIRING! *___*

10. A pairing that I despise.
Kaito-Shinichi. Oh there's good stuff for it, and I regularly stalk a doujin site for it. I've just also seen way too much Girl!Shinichi fanart for it too. Girl!Shinichi DEFIES the purpose of Yaoi, youhou! If you want Girl!Shinichi, she exists: it's Ran. D: *is shot. again.*

*Snuggles* Good luck with assessments btw!

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

And there a quite a few cases with Heiji that I love and everyone else seems to love. *sigh*
And there are quite a few cases with Heiji that I loathe, sorry, typos. D:

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

I am curious here, what is it a lot of people find detestable about Kazuha? XD If it's her ability to jump to conclusions, I'm not fond of that myself, like in that one OVA where she immediately decided that Heiji was doing something criminal. She should have had more faith in him!

[juneaddams.livejournal.com]

I find her a little whiny, actually. And overly possessive of Heiji. She's an insecure character, and that's fine, but her insecurity is not the kind that I can relate to or empathize with. Maybe Gosho is just not that good or lacking experience at showing emotional vulnerability in a female character, I don't know. He's done a magnificent job with Ai (and to an extent, Sato, and of course, the BO girls are all wonderful femme fatale characters)

Also, she seems to be the obligatory Eve created simply to compliment Heiji without real purpose to serve the storyline, as if Gosho thought we wouldn't be emotionally invested in his story if he doesn't have a girl to crush and be crushed on. That's silly.

plus, with Heiji's obsession to solving cases and that 'mysterious lover' four-eyed detective, Kazuha seems more like an annoying addition, even to Heiji himself. He forgets about her all the time--well, most of the time anyway.

The cases involving Heiji that I like tend to be those with less girl-bonding ( Kazuha-Ran reminded me a bit of two young housewives in ancient Japan sometimes) and more teamwork / friendship between Heiji and Conan. I don't know, it seems more natural and less forced than those with Kazuha/Ran shoved in.

er, sorry. I didn't mean it to be that long. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[fs-playground.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree. And I wonder why I didn't come up with the "young housewives in ancient Japan" expression because it is exactly the thing I dislike about both Ran and Kazuha. The only difference is their awsome knowledge of martial art. (But it seems Japanese men like those girls. There are so many of them in manga.)

[bf-nightingale.livejournal.com]

WORD. Just WORD.

And thank you for this precise explanation, it would have taken me at least three comments to explain the same ideas.^_~

I didn't like her from her first appearance, because... mobbing an unknown girl? Meh, even if she suspected Ran to be Heiji's love-interest, I think that her jealousy is way to extreme to be healthy. For both of them.

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

"as if Gosho thought we wouldn't be emotionally invested in his story if he doesn't have a girl to crush and be crushed on. That's silly."
And to stop the Heiji-Ran fanfics. XDDDD
What? Am I the only one who noticed this trend when all the Case Closed fans started flooding the DC/MK section of FF.net? Though I'd love to see one that deals with Kazuha & Shinichi! X3

And agreed too: my favourite cases with Heiji tend to be the ones without Kazuha. ^^;;

[silmelin.livejournal.com]

>>> Kazuha-Ran reminded me a bit of two young housewives in ancient Japan sometimes <<<

Non ANCIENT japan but ACTUAL Japan. Maybe both of Ran and Kazuha will become housewifes when they'll be adult.

>>> Also, she seems to be the obligatory Eve created simply to compliment Heiji without real purpose to serve the storyline, <<<

She's just a side character. She won't become a FBI agent or an MIB member. She's just Heiji's foil (? I mean FAIRE VALOIR in french).

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

What I find despisable with Kazuha?It will be very long...^^;
_She's totally FLAT. The character was created with only one purpose, beeing Heiji's TWU LUV and that's all she is...
Let's take Ran, I don't like the Shinichi/Ran pairing at all but I love Ran besides that because she's more that Shinichi's love interest(her relationships with her parents/with Ai/with Sonoko/with Vermouth/ how she acts in vol 42/when she put her ex-teacher in jail/prove the innocent of her favorite martial artist/she know to play piano a bit).
But Kazuha? If you take away her role as Heiji's girlfriend, there is N-O-T-H-I-N-G...Nothing, even her friendship with Ran is superficial and uninteressing...
_The Heiji/Kazuha pairing...Sooo, two childhood friend who falls in love(OMG how original!), they yelled at each other every time so they're in love(OMG what an unique kind of relationship, it's not a cliché at all)...
But my main pet peeves with those two is that the pairing is not believable at all...I know, hearth had reasons that reasons ignore but I love to find a bit of logic in a relationship, and I don't find that with this couple.
I don't see what Heiji could find lovable or attracting with Kazuha, I don't see chemestry nor positive tension between them(I just see two teenagers acting like two immature brats...)...
In fact even a friendship between them is groundless for me, Heiji seemed to be with her most of the times because he is forced by her/don't have the heart to tell her to give him a break, not because they're sharing something...
The reader would never trust the writer without thoughts, he need to be convinced. Aoyama had tried to tell me that those two are lovers, he had failed...And it's not a wonder, he didn't have ever tried to do it seriously...
When I see those two, I see VERY bad subtext, the kind "You don't need mutual fascination, commun interest or complementary personnalitie to have a couple, no...You just need the "childhood friends" wand, we don't know how it works but suspend your desbielief, it's magic.."-_-;
_Kazuha is overpossesive and egoistical...look at her first meeting with Ran and how she is behaving. I'm sorry but if Aoyama don't have a secret flaschback hidden somewhere, Kazuha is JUST Heiji's childhood friends. She never had the guts to tell him that she wants to be more for him and Heiji had NEVER said to her that he don't love her as a friend but something more...
So she don't have the right to act like a wife cheated by her husband, she don't have the right to insult someone who could be Heiji's potential lover and saying to her that she would never break the sacred bound between her and Heiji..Nope...
Heiji is not her husband, he is not her pet, he is not her son, he is not an object which belongs to her...But she's acting EXACTLY like if it was the case.
My opinion? She's egoistical, she don't think to Heiji's happyness but to her own happyness, she don't treat him like a human beeing but like her property...
Oh and even when Ran was suspecting Shinichi to cheat with her, she have never feels anger for the suspected girls but for Shinichi. But Kazuha?She was far to be as fair play with the suspect...
And it's another reasons which made me found the pairing unbelievable, Heiji is proud and independant, Kazuha is overly possessive and jealous , I don't think that a relationship between two people like that could works longer...
It could work if they were maturing in the manga, but since they don't evolves at all...
In conclusion. Kazuha is nothing more that a girfriend for Heiji and I don't like the pairing, so it's very hard for me to like her. She had the kind of flaws that I despise the most with a character and she don't have anything to compensate them...
Oh and I love Heiji, I want to read fics about him and what could I found when I search?Most of the times, romance between him and Kazuha, it didn't help me to love her...

Sorry for the bitter post but since you wanted to know the point of view of some Kazuha's haters...^__^;

[silmelin.livejournal.com]

When I read your post I see where is your problem with the character of Kazuha: you just don't understand why she was created.
OF COURSE she's NOT interresting (especially for the eyes of occidental people) but she doesn't need to.

Kazuha is a stereotype of japanese KANSAI teenager. She acts like japanese Osaka girls. This is the most important thing. It's seems that japanese like to compare KANTO (Tokyo aera) and KANSAI (Osaka aera). That's why Ran and Kazuha needed to be so similar. But she have some differences. When you live in Japan, you can feel the difference of character (temper? not sure of my english). Maybe this is just what you don't understand.

You said: "I don't see what Heiji could find lovable or attracting with Kazuha, I don't see chemestry nor positive tension between them(I just see two teenagers acting like two immature brats...)..."

In Kansai and especially in Osaka, people like fighting when they like each other. This is not a probleme of maturity but of culture. People in Kanto are differents. They don't argue like that.

But you know, if you don't like Kazuha, this is not a problem. I don't like Haibara Ai and most of people don't really understand why I don't like her.

That's all. I hope you can understand this message and I'm really sorry because my english is really to bad T__T

[bf-nightingale.livejournal.com]

No offense meant but... this doesn't change a thing about her jealousy and her possessiveness, nor has she any valuable function in the plot than being Heiji's potential love interest.^^;
And being a typical osakan girl (which means having more temper than Ran) doesn't excuse her aggressiveness either.^^;

OF COURSE she's NOT interresting (especially for the eyes of occidental people) but she doesn't need to.
I don't think this has anything to do that we are Occidentals, I think that lots of occidental cultures and behaviors are more similar to the kansaian temper than the rather shy and reserved attitude of Kanto people. But I think that it is sad that a lack of interesting personality is "excused" as just being a necessary counterpart to a kanto girl. I like the series because of the interesting characters, so Aoyama obviously can create interesting personalities. But then, why didn't he do the same with Kazuha?

But of course, everybody has a different point of view and I certainly don't want to make you like Kazuha less. It's just that I often do not understand the arguments of Kazuha fans, and I'd really like to understand why so many girls like her that much.^^;

[silmelin.livejournal.com]

>>> I like the series because of the interesting characters, so Aoyama obviously can create interesting personalities. But then, why didn't he do the same with Kazuha? <<<

I think this is because Aoyama didn't intand to create the characters of both Heiji and Kazuha. Heiji was created because Aoyama received the instructions to do it. He created Kazuha with the aims of giving a typical kansai girl friend to Heiji. There is a parallel between Heiji and Shinichi and the same kind of parallel exists also between Kazuha and Ran.

>>> this doesn't change a thing about her jealousy and her possessiveness, <<<

This is also a specificity of japanese Kansai girls.

>>> nor has she any valuable function in the plot than being Heiji's potential love interest.^^; <<<

Do you think thant Detective Boys, Kaito Kids or Sato Miwako have a better function?
The Detective Boys role is to fill the comedy quota to amuse the younger audience. Kaito kid is just a reference to another manga. Sato Miwako is only the female police officer who can become Takagi's girlfriend.

>>> But I think that it is sad that a lack of interesting personality is "excused" as just being a necessary counterpart to a kanto girl. <<<

What is the interresting personnality of Ran?
I mean Kazuha doesn't belong to the main cast. If you developp her personnality that means you wanted her to belong to the main plot of the story.

You don't understand why people like Kazuha. But do we have to justify all of our tastes? I also know some people who likes Haibara who just CAN'T explain me objectively why she is interessting. They just like her because she's cute or intelligent. Is that all? This is not enough for me. But what can I say? They like her. This doesn't belong to me.

[bf-nightingale.livejournal.com]

You don't understand why people like Kazuha. But do we have to justify all of our tastes? I also know some people who likes Haibara who just CAN'T explain me objectively why she is interessting. They just like her because she's cute or intelligent. Is that all? This is not enough for me. But what can I say? They like her. This doesn't belong to me.
Ok, I prefer not to go any further, I really intended no offense, believe it or not. And usually I'm asking for exactly the same "justifications" why someone loves or despises another character like e.g. Ai, whether I love them or not, I'm just interested in this kind of discussions, that's a bad habit of mine. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your position. I just want to reply to some of your points where I'm do not share your opinion, then you won't hear from me again (unless you want me to explain some of my points in more details).

This is also a specificity of japanese Kansai girls.
No, I'm sorry, but that's not enough. Tell me that Osakans have much more temper than eastern Japanese, ok, I know that by myself. Tell me that all osakan girls are that jealous to punch unknown girls and cling to their potential love interests as if they'd run away any second, no. Explaining every trait, positive or negative, as being nothing more than a stereotype is a bit too easy and doesn't show her in a better light, quite the contrary.

Do you think thant Detective Boys, Kaito Kids or Sato Miwako have a better function?
Personally? Yes, I think that the Detective Boys have a function. Not in the beginning of course, they were probably just created to please the children that were reading Conan, but I think that they have an important role for the development of Conans and Ais character. I can explain that in a longer entry if you want to, I'd love to explain my position. Kaitou Kid and Satô... well, I never wondered that much about their function in Detective Conan (except for Kid being a crossover with his favorite series of course), but at least he made imho a fine job for Satôs personality. But that's an interesting question whether Satô and Kid have an important function or not.

What is the interresting personnality of Ran?
That would require another longish post to answer that one. Just say so if you want me to write one.
And he did a good job with other characters that are not main cast, like Jodie, Eisuke, Eiri and many more. Same for Heiji. He may not be intended in the first place, but Aoyama created many possibilities to give him a real personality and a credible friendship with Conan. He may still do the same for Kazuha in future, but until now, he neglected her a lot, which I think is disappointing. I might like her more if we knew more about her background, who knows...

And no, of course you don't need to justify why you like/love her. It's just that personally I think that loving a character just because he/she is cute is quite boring, that's why I love to discuss my favorite characters with other fans. No offense was meant, really, and I'm sorry in case I did give that impression.

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

Let's said that I dont agree with you on many points.

Yes, Saito don't play a role in the main plot of the story, but the character is three-dimensional, her past is explored, her relationship with Takagi evolves, her romance is a piece of fresh air in Aoyama's universe(it's a romance between adults and partners, not between teenagers, and I don't see the infamous "childhood love"'s plot device used to built it), and we couldn't a find a single bit of the idealistic and patriarchal vision of the ideal woman in her.
So even if she don't play a role in the plot, I'm interessed by Sato, love to read about her and I'm glad that Gosho had created her.

Kazuha is a basic cliché, she don't evolves at all, she don't have qualities to compensate her flaws, her romance with Heiji is not fleshed at all and if we forget this romance, we couldn't find anything in her...
That's why I dislike Kazuha, not because she don't play a role in the plot.
I know, I'm very harsh with her, but it's the problem, even if I try, I don't find a single positive thing to said about this poor Kazuha. That's why I would be glad if you could extent my vision of the character in showing me some side of her that I don't have seen for now.
After all, for what I know of you(Yes, I'm a lurker on Beika^^; ), you're not a japanese, even if you live in Osaka, so I don't think that you've loved Kazuha because this character match with your expectations as a japanese reader.
That's why I would be interessed to see why you were interessed by her.
You see, it's the point of this kind of discussions. Obviously no one had to justify her/his tastes but trying to defend them could be a good thing because it could extent the opinions of the others and vice-versa.

"I also know some people who likes Haibara who just CAN'T explain me objectively why she is interessting. They just like her because she's cute or intelligent. Is that all? This is not enough for me. But what can I say? They like her. This doesn't belong to me."
It's not enough for me either since I don't adore her because she's intelligent or cute. But if you're interessed, I could gives you more develloped reasons about my favorite character.^_-

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, your english is certainly far more better than mine.^_^;
It would be more simple for both of us if we uses french but since some people here don't speak this language and could be interessed by my answer, I will continue to butcher Shakespeare's language with you.XD

"Kazuha is a stereotype of japanese KANSAI teenager. She acts like japanese Osaka girls. This is the most important thing. It's seems that japanese like to compare KANTO (Tokyo aera) and KANSAI (Osaka aera). That's why Ran and Kazuha needed to be so similar. But she have some differences. When you live in Japan, you can feel the difference of character (temper? not sure of my english). Maybe this is just what you don't understand."

Nope, I don't understand. A cliché is, by definition, overused and boring.
You could take create a character with a basic cliché and made him/her lovable/interessing/fascinating besides that if you fleshed it in showing that she/he's more that a cliché, in showing that she/he had particularities which allow her/him to don't exist only in the form of a living cliché, in making him/her evolve.

In few words, I want to read about human and three-dimensionnal characters not cliché. I could empathize with character, not with archetypal figure.
But Gosho don't have fleshed Kazuha at all in my opinion, she's just here to play her role as comic's device and Heiji's love interest, period.

And romance for the sake of romance bores me to death, when I read a romance I want to read about two human beeing falling in love, not two cliché/idealistic teenagers falling in love...Idealistic feelings are empty, it didn't interessed me at all.
I want to see why those two people feels attraction for each other, how each of them is affecting the other, which consequences their relationship had on their lives and their respective view of the world, and besides all, I want to see WHY their relationship is unique and not a carbon copy of another one.

If Gosho wanted to create a girlfriend for Heiji, fine. But it would have been better if he had put some effort in this character instead of creating it with basic cliché which match with the average readers's expectation.

And like have said Nightyngale, when Aoyama had created Heiji, he had fleshed the character, he's something far more interessing that a mascot for Kansai's people. Was it so difficult for him to made the same thing with Kazuha?

"In Kansai and especially in Osaka, people like fighting when they like each other. This is not a probleme of maturity but of culture. People in Kanto are differents. They don't argue like that."
I think that I will trying to avoid that..No, I will not. I don't like to see human beeing trapped in stereotype. Beeing possesive, jealous and don't trying to respect the desires of your beloved is immature in every countries in the world in my opinion. And a behaviour is not more acceptable because it match with cultural steotype.

"But you know, if you don't like Kazuha, this is not a problem. I don't like Haibara Ai and most of people don't really understand why I don't like her."
Each one have the right to like or dislike the character of his/her choice, but I think it's interessing to trying to understood views different of mine. If people are not agree with my point of view about Kazuha, they've the right to said it and explain to me why, it's a very good things and I loved that you've done it.^__^

[bf-nightingale.livejournal.com]

And like have said Nightyngale

Hey, I know that the 'y' is way cooler than the 'i', but still, I can be pretty old-fashioned when it comes to names and their spelling!=P

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

Oops, sorry.XD

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

"So she don't have the right to act like a wife cheated by her husband, she don't have the right to insult someone who could be Heiji's potential lover and saying to her that she would never break the sacred bound between her and Heiji..Nope..."

She doesn't have a right to act like a friend afraid her friend's love would cause him to forget all about her? I thought one of the things about mariage is that many seemed to lose a circle of friends through them to please their partner?

That said, agreed about the maturing. Heiji seems to have kiddified as the story went along. Only evolution I've seen is he no longer treats the BO lightly.

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

Dag, if I was forcing you to talk me about your love life, asking to you suspicious questions about the kind of people you know and that I didn't know, was expecting you to give me clear repport of what you have done when I was not with you. If I suspect you to have a love interest who is not worth of you and that I was harrasing this person in your back...
If I act like that, I'm not acting like a friend, I'm acting like a jerk who don't respect your private life, your freedom of choice and who is treating you like a child or a pet instead of an human beeing...

A friends have the right to feels concerns for a friend, if a friends think that one of her friends is making an error, he had the right to said it to his friend...
But he don't have the right to infering in her life.

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

. . . Are we still talking about Kazuha here? Because surely she's not that bad and Heiji should have no trouble shrugging her off if she was (even if the fanon that she follows him every where turns out to be right.)

At most she's like an overbearing sister, neh?

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

*Eyes warily the whole discussion below.*
Humm. I think I'm just going to develop my own view here.

First off, it's not as much that I hate Kazuha, but more that she just doesn't do much for me. She's a side character and seems rather stereotypical to me, confined in the role of jealous not!girlfriend and Ran's BFF. She's used efficiently to bring in humour (Kudo's a BOY not a Girl! XD) ubt apart from that, really, I just have no interest in her. Her "romance" with Heiji usually bores me (because seriously the childhood friend issue is overdone and those two don't really have any obstacles other than Heiji's clueless state) and she's hardly ever used for anything else.
If she was in a not so logical as DC series, say MK, I'd expect her superstitious nature to play a much more interesting part though. Thus my saying she has "potential".

That said, none of this has prevented me drawing and ficcing about her and Heiji in the past. (Hell, those two are the only characters I've drawn *kissing* so far!)

[juneaddams.livejournal.com]

no.10:

T_______________________________________________T

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

Don't cry. It's nothing to do with you. It's the fault of all those fanart sites that draw Shinichi too girly. *huggles*

That and there's way too much of them. But meh. There's still some awesome stuff and I'll still read the pairing (since I love Kaito and don't hate Shinichi. XD) I just want to see it done properly. *snuggles*

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

4)Tiens, suis curieux, qu'est ce qui t'a fait aimer Akai plus qu'au début?^__^
5)Ohhh, et moi qui pensait que t'aimais bien ma version de Conan ds mes fics..Y-Y

[dagronrat.livejournal.com]

4) Oh? Je n'étais pas assez claire? XD
Bah au debut Akai on le voit comme un BO potentiel dont on ne sait que dalle. Cela intrigue, oui, mais ça ne fait pas aimer.
Le coup de foudre c'était GIN HAS A SCAR et AKEMI. ♥ Bien qu'il ait commencé à monter dans mon estime avant, bien sur. ♥

5) Did I ever said I didn't? I dunno. I had to answer something. :cp And it's how I explain to myself my lack of C/A plunnies these days. Hush.